Bleak reality is preferable to comforting fiction. I hope more liberals realize the gravity of the situation and change their approach, as the current strategy really, really isn't working.
"January 6, 2021, wasn’t a protest gone wrong; it was an armed occupation of the Capitol."
Who, exactly, was "armed"? Armed occupations rarely end with a trip to Arby's.
How was this fundamentally different from when leftist protestors were trying to bang down the door of the supreme court in response to Kavanaugh's nomination? Police eventually were able to form a line between the door and prevent them from breaking through.
"fueled by a belief that democracy itself, when it elects the wrong person, is the enemy."
Er. No. They entered because they thought the Dems cheated. I don't think they were right, but I don't reassign their motives. Speaking of which, Biden was democratically nominated for his second term, fair and square. Then the autocratic powers in the Dem party undemocratically shoved him aside.
"paving the way for an oligarchic, autocratic future that could dominate for 80–100 years, as Strauss and Howe’s cycles suggest?"
Well, an opposing point of view might be that we already suffered through the oligarchic autocratic Biden regime. OR is the fact that Biden didn't seem to be running the show for 4 years not trouble you? If he wasn't, and the evidence seems pretty strong he mostly wasn't, we just went though years with oligarchic interests running the country.
The problem is you are applying these broad lessons to only one party, and not both. The autocratic danger usually emanates from the left, far more from the right. Liberals, like yourself, largely ignore the excesses and dangers from the left until it is too late.
I disagree with trump on many things, but overall, I'm comforted in a president who wants the government to get smaller and do less. He also seems to have pulled several democrats into his government. He also seems largely deferential to members of his cabinet, letting many set the agenda and policy. Biden, on the other hand, rarely held a cabinet meeting, and his cabinet members took long absences without anyone seeming to care. We had unelected, faceless, people making decisions.
I have to say, this isn't a defense of trump, per se, it is observing that almost everything you are concerned over was much, much worse under Biden.
I think democrats need to acknowledge their own failings and obsessions. That can begin the process of regrowth and renewal. I want a strong Dem party - I want competition between the parties for votes. But, at the moment, they seem like a lost cause, because they can't apply their concerns to their own behavior. Thye also can seem to get past certain obsessions and ideas and focus on more important issues.
"Conservative social media posts misleadingly claim the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 was not an “armed” insurrection, citing FBI testimony that no guns were seized from suspects that day. But 23 people have been charged with having deadly or dangerous weapons during the assault — including a loaded handgun found on a man arrested on Capitol grounds."
Nobody who entered the capital building had a gun. That is what most people think the word "armed" means.
A guy outside the building had a gun ("on the capitol grounds", which could be anywhere). That is not much of an "armed insurrection." Maybe they all planned on sharing the one gun, huh? Take turns overthrowing the U.S. government with it?
But progressives use the term "armed" to mean carrying anything that could be potentially used as a weapon - flag poles, office furniture, fencing, a pocketknife, stolen riot shields. That is, by the way, a correct legal definition. If I assault, you with a 2X4 the police report will say I was "armed" with a 2X4. But it feels to me that progressives exploit that legal definition to imply people had rifles or handguns and such, in order to misrepresent and inflate what happened.
I'm not excusing anything anyone did. I was stupid and wrong. I'm in favor of plenty of jail time for the rioters. But the histrionics and claim inflation simply reduces the system faith of everyone involved. It accomplishes the exact opposite what should be our goals, calm, rational, accurate, and dispassionate justice.
The capitol was a war zone for hours. Police officers who had served in combat testified that Jan 6 was more intense than anything they had been through in Iraq or Afghanistan. Several police officers were killed due to that day.
And the cops fighting the insurrectionists believed that the insurrectionists were armed and that was why, in part, they did not shoot even when they were in danger of being killed.
Watch the videos - it was a brutal bloody battle.
And regardless of what you reply to this, I won't counter reply. The videos show what clearly happened.
ALL riots are war zones for hours. This was not unusual in that regard and is the definition of a riot.
"Several police officers were killed due to that day."
Here is the actual death toll:
Brian Sicknick died of stroke the next day. Four other police officers committed suicide in the days and months after the riot. And that's...it. No police officer was killed on that day.
I think it is a huge stretch to blame their deaths on what happened on J6. Suicide rates for cops have always been very high. In fact, they have the highest rates of suicide of any profession. 12.4% say they have considered suicide. More police officers die of suicide each year than die in the line of duty. Again, what happened was awful and shouldn't have happened. But you also don't need to inflate it.
Imagine an alternate reality - where Biden and the democrats...forgave the J6 protestors. Made conciliatory gestures. Biden could have kept his campaign promise to be a transitional figure, only serving 1 term. Maybe handing the reins to Kamala in this third year, blaming his cancer diagnosis. And maybe not pursuing, with all vigor, every legal avenue to "get Trump." And maybe focused up on some of the problems the voters were concerned over.
Would Trump be in office today if any of that had happened? I think not. I doubt Trump would even have run for office again. I think the Dems would be in a much better place, electorally and mentally. The fact that this conversation is obviously upsetting to you is part of the problem that Democrats are having, and why they are falling apart.
At the end of the civil war, veterans were invited back to Gettysburg to recreate the battle. When the bugle sounded, both sides rushed toward one another, screaming. But instead of fighting, they embraced.
That is the path forward here as well. Forgiveness and reconciliation. Moving forward. Until that happens - you'll just get more Trump.
Bleak reality is preferable to comforting fiction. I hope more liberals realize the gravity of the situation and change their approach, as the current strategy really, really isn't working.
Does the book mentioned under no 1 applies for Europe as well? Or is it very USA oriented?
The Fourth Turning discusses the UK a lot and Europe some. The basic idea is very applicable to all countries. American Nations is 100% U.S. focused.
"January 6, 2021, wasn’t a protest gone wrong; it was an armed occupation of the Capitol."
Who, exactly, was "armed"? Armed occupations rarely end with a trip to Arby's.
How was this fundamentally different from when leftist protestors were trying to bang down the door of the supreme court in response to Kavanaugh's nomination? Police eventually were able to form a line between the door and prevent them from breaking through.
"fueled by a belief that democracy itself, when it elects the wrong person, is the enemy."
Er. No. They entered because they thought the Dems cheated. I don't think they were right, but I don't reassign their motives. Speaking of which, Biden was democratically nominated for his second term, fair and square. Then the autocratic powers in the Dem party undemocratically shoved him aside.
"paving the way for an oligarchic, autocratic future that could dominate for 80–100 years, as Strauss and Howe’s cycles suggest?"
Well, an opposing point of view might be that we already suffered through the oligarchic autocratic Biden regime. OR is the fact that Biden didn't seem to be running the show for 4 years not trouble you? If he wasn't, and the evidence seems pretty strong he mostly wasn't, we just went though years with oligarchic interests running the country.
The problem is you are applying these broad lessons to only one party, and not both. The autocratic danger usually emanates from the left, far more from the right. Liberals, like yourself, largely ignore the excesses and dangers from the left until it is too late.
I disagree with trump on many things, but overall, I'm comforted in a president who wants the government to get smaller and do less. He also seems to have pulled several democrats into his government. He also seems largely deferential to members of his cabinet, letting many set the agenda and policy. Biden, on the other hand, rarely held a cabinet meeting, and his cabinet members took long absences without anyone seeming to care. We had unelected, faceless, people making decisions.
I have to say, this isn't a defense of trump, per se, it is observing that almost everything you are concerned over was much, much worse under Biden.
I think democrats need to acknowledge their own failings and obsessions. That can begin the process of regrowth and renewal. I want a strong Dem party - I want competition between the parties for votes. But, at the moment, they seem like a lost cause, because they can't apply their concerns to their own behavior. Thye also can seem to get past certain obsessions and ideas and focus on more important issues.
They were armed - https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/us-capitol-attack-rioters-had-weapons-including-firearms-2025-01-16/
"Conservative social media posts misleadingly claim the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 was not an “armed” insurrection, citing FBI testimony that no guns were seized from suspects that day. But 23 people have been charged with having deadly or dangerous weapons during the assault — including a loaded handgun found on a man arrested on Capitol grounds."
Nobody who entered the capital building had a gun. That is what most people think the word "armed" means.
A guy outside the building had a gun ("on the capitol grounds", which could be anywhere). That is not much of an "armed insurrection." Maybe they all planned on sharing the one gun, huh? Take turns overthrowing the U.S. government with it?
But progressives use the term "armed" to mean carrying anything that could be potentially used as a weapon - flag poles, office furniture, fencing, a pocketknife, stolen riot shields. That is, by the way, a correct legal definition. If I assault, you with a 2X4 the police report will say I was "armed" with a 2X4. But it feels to me that progressives exploit that legal definition to imply people had rifles or handguns and such, in order to misrepresent and inflate what happened.
I'm not excusing anything anyone did. I was stupid and wrong. I'm in favor of plenty of jail time for the rioters. But the histrionics and claim inflation simply reduces the system faith of everyone involved. It accomplishes the exact opposite what should be our goals, calm, rational, accurate, and dispassionate justice.
The capitol was a war zone for hours. Police officers who had served in combat testified that Jan 6 was more intense than anything they had been through in Iraq or Afghanistan. Several police officers were killed due to that day.
And the cops fighting the insurrectionists believed that the insurrectionists were armed and that was why, in part, they did not shoot even when they were in danger of being killed.
Watch the videos - it was a brutal bloody battle.
And regardless of what you reply to this, I won't counter reply. The videos show what clearly happened.
ALL riots are war zones for hours. This was not unusual in that regard and is the definition of a riot.
"Several police officers were killed due to that day."
Here is the actual death toll:
Brian Sicknick died of stroke the next day. Four other police officers committed suicide in the days and months after the riot. And that's...it. No police officer was killed on that day.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/
I think it is a huge stretch to blame their deaths on what happened on J6. Suicide rates for cops have always been very high. In fact, they have the highest rates of suicide of any profession. 12.4% say they have considered suicide. More police officers die of suicide each year than die in the line of duty. Again, what happened was awful and shouldn't have happened. But you also don't need to inflate it.
Imagine an alternate reality - where Biden and the democrats...forgave the J6 protestors. Made conciliatory gestures. Biden could have kept his campaign promise to be a transitional figure, only serving 1 term. Maybe handing the reins to Kamala in this third year, blaming his cancer diagnosis. And maybe not pursuing, with all vigor, every legal avenue to "get Trump." And maybe focused up on some of the problems the voters were concerned over.
Would Trump be in office today if any of that had happened? I think not. I doubt Trump would even have run for office again. I think the Dems would be in a much better place, electorally and mentally. The fact that this conversation is obviously upsetting to you is part of the problem that Democrats are having, and why they are falling apart.
At the end of the civil war, veterans were invited back to Gettysburg to recreate the battle. When the bugle sounded, both sides rushed toward one another, screaming. But instead of fighting, they embraced.
That is the path forward here as well. Forgiveness and reconciliation. Moving forward. Until that happens - you'll just get more Trump.